50 thoughts on “[6.9 Spoilers] Binding & Countermeasures

  1. I agree with Avery’s gut feeling of awfulness about most of these. Although I wonder if Guilherme wouldn’t prefer getting bound over falling to Winter…
    Aside from that, this is barely usable as is – the Kennet Others are varied enough to throw a wrench in any plan that would target a single one of them.

    I’m guessing the girls will ask support from a couple Roles in the form of summoning a sort of Kennetian trial court to help bring the culprits in. Then binding could be seen as acceptable punishment and they wouldn’t lose too much trust from the remaining Others.

    Liked by 4 people

      • Being a Familiar could help. Specifically Lucy’s, though by then it might be too late to save him.

        Shame if it is. She wants a fighter by her side, and I seriously doubt Gil’s been a Familiar before.

        Being the animal sidekick of a girl that mixes Fae and Goblin magic and thinks the best framing of her involves arguing sounds like it’d keep him to busy for Winter.


        • Yes, but it would also inevitably relegate Lucy and the girls to second place to her familiar. The familiar ritual is the one where the book specifically warns that a large power imbalance can more turn the practitioner into the sidekick. And there’s no bigger power imbalance they could pick.


    • Yeah I don’t think this is a plan of action, so much as a set of notes for them to reference if they do need to come up with a plan of action. But you’re right about how horrible and awful it is to have to come up with it.

      And about Guilherme, I suspect if being bound would prevent him to falling to Winter or be preferable he’d have already put himself in that position. He sounds like he’s played out every other story already, including that one.

      Liked by 1 person

  2. I really can’t see Snowdrop being a secret ally of the perpetrator of the Carmine Beast’s demise. Not even if it turns out to be Cherrypop. (Which would be hilarious, but I can’t see Cherrypop being a secret mastermind either. Toadswallow maybe, with Cherrypop as a henchman, but nothing more.) So, there’s like zero chance they’ll need to bind Snowdrop.

    Alpeana also seems fairly disconnected from the whole CB issue, just going about her nightly business. If they have to bind her, it’ll be for some other reason (like, it turns out she’s eating the souls of Innocents).

    Thinking on a more meta level, what’s the worst case? If they have to fend off John Stiles, and the Doom, while the Faerie are plotting against them… so, probably that. Give ’em the goblins as allies so they aren’t immediately squished.

    Liked by 1 person

    • I can’t see Snowdrop being an intentional ally of the murderer, but she’s weak enough to potentially be turned against them and close enough to do some damage. (Especially if she gets her hands on some matches…) It’s good to be prepared.

      Liked by 1 person

      • She’s a Boon Companion, like a proto-Familiar. Can your familiar be turned against you? I… really don’t think so, it’d be like convincing a man’s left finger to betray him. I think they’re safe from that, though there could be rules and exceptions I don’t know.

        Liked by 1 person

        • That analogy isn’t very convincing to me, since I’m not so certain that you can’t get someone’s left finger to turn on them. You need more than words, obviously, but if anyone’s restricted to words they’re probably not a threat. (Which is why the girls aren’t worried about binding Charles.)

          Liked by 1 person

        • Snlfny jnf na bire-cbjreshy snzvyvne, abg bar ghearq ntnvafg vgf Cenpgvgvbare ol bhgfvqr vasyhraprf.

          Nygubhtu, gurer vf gur yvggyr cbpxrg-zna gung qvnobyvfg unq, jura ur tbg va qrrc rabhtu gur Ynjlref svfurq uvz bhg.


  3. The information on how demigods work in the Otherverse is interesting. I wonder if the weakening effect from the Seal also applies to the more human-shaped ones; Hercules might not be able to hold up the sky anymore, but I’d expect he’d probably be a nightmare to fight against. I wonder how an Otherverse Percy Jackson story would go.

    Liked by 1 person

  4. I really hope the only Other of Kennet that gets bound is the culprit.
    On that note, maybe the type of Other they should be really be researching how to bind is a Carmine Judge.
    Because the culprit is likely to claim that title eventually, and even before then they might be able to tap into some of the corpse’s power.
    If for instance our trio is planning on binding an ordinary Vessel and it turns out they’re actually facing down the Carmine Vessel, that could throw a pretty major wrench into things.

    Liked by 5 people

  5. There’s some weird ass patriarchy BS in this, so we’re not sure how much to listen to it.

    I’d suggest a decent bit. Even if it’s BS, a lot of people buy into it, which gives it power (and not just the magical kind).

    Put a goblin in a bathtub with clean water and they can’t even spit in it, can’t stain it, can’t really move.

    I love that giving a goblin a bath is an effective binding measure.

    Cig is an ambulatory object.

    And thus the line between Other and mere spirit is eroded that much further.
    I wonder what other technically-Others might be wandering around, unnoticed.

    Liked by 2 people

    • It’s not just that giving a goblin a bath is an effective binding measure, it’s that it’s utterly ineffectual at cleaning the goblin. The goblin can’t stain the water and it remains clean (or else the binding would immediately fail), so all the dirt must remain on the goblin.

      Kind of a funny case where the laws of the universe reinforce what the goblins want, sort of.

      Liked by 1 person

    • And thus the line between Other and mere spirit is eroded that much further.
      I wonder what other technically-Others might be wandering around, unnoticed.

      Go look up tsukumogami: in Japanese tradition, an object that has survived for 100 years can develop a spirit of its own.

      Liked by 2 people

        • Pactverse does draw inspiration from several flavors of ancient folklore, though how much of what is shown in Pact/Pale is accurate to the old tales is debatable… but then again, folk lore often isn’t very self-consistent to begin with and nearly every work of high fantasy has it’s own twist on something from folklore.

          That said, we haven’t had much of the practice from a non-European-descent perspective, so it’s hard to say what bits of Japanese folklore are true in Pactverse.


        • There’s a difference between “inspired by” and “canon to”. I could go back to the religious roots of canon, but in the interest of not pissing off a substantial portion of the world’s population I’ll instead note that the League of Extraordinary Gentleman comics (and movie) were inspired by many public-domain Victoria-era novels without those novels being canonically part of them; indeed, LEG contradicts them on several points.


        • We know that oni are canon. There have been scattered references to how Eastern practitioners do things differently. Do tsukumogami definitely exist? Nah, we don’t know. COULD they exist without being inconsistent with the world as we understand it? Definitely.


        • I mean, yes, they could exist. We literally see something that looks kinda like a tsukumogami in this chapter. But that’s not really relevant to my statement, which was basically “The existence of [X] in folklore doesn’t suggest [X] exist in Pact/Pale”.

          Suggesting that the presence of oni in Pale proves the existence of tsukumogami (or makes them more likely or whatever) is kind of like saying that the presence of Excalibur in NetHack means the Wild Hunt must be in there too, since they both come from British folklore.


        • I mean, yes, but I was never claiming it proved anything; quite the opposite, I was pointing out an interesting piece of folklore that might be relevant, with no assertion that it HAD to be true.


    • id say even belief in something could give it magical power too. take glamour as the classic example.

      be jung oynxr qvq jura svtugvat gur oneore, gel gb znxr rirel cbffvoyr fgno ng gurve cyna be npgvbaf, gb qvfperqvg gurz va gur fcvevgf’ rlrf? to me, belief in something goes a long way


  6. So Tashlit could do something really powerful and dangerous, if she’s riled up enough and finds the way through the rules that lets her get away with it. And she’s probably infertile. I’m with Verona, that is sad. Probably a good thing to stop the spread of semidivine eyeball-people, but… I think the spread of semidivine eyeball-people would be a good thing.

    Liked by 2 people

  7. {Unofficial transcript, part 1}

    Binding & Countermeasures

    Brainstorming & ideas from texts at the school. How do we bind
    or deal with the Kennet Others, if we end up having to deal with
    them? Weapons, tools, resources, options…

    General Stuff

    If we end up binding, it’s hopefully going to be with us getting the
    O.K. from the Kennet Others as a group. If we’re not in a position
    to go to them, then we might talk to the judges to get the all-clear.

    Lucy says it’s like getting a warrant before making an arrest. The
    binding is the arrest.

    Binding is hard. It’s effective when it works but a magic circle is
    really time consuming to draw. So our idea is that we might have
    a few circles of varying complexity. Or a basic way of drawing up
    a circle against a target or targets, and then the complex one.
    The benefit of working out a basic circle is that the same ideas
    that go into making it a circle that contains can also be put into a
    short barrier or wall. If a circle of fire can keep a ghoul inside it,
    then a line of fire will keep it from approaching or keep it from
    using any ghoul mojo or powers.

    There’s also the problem of having to get them into the circle.
    Some circles will draw them in, others will need us to do the work.
    We know from Human Binding exercises that weakening them in
    other ways will make the rest easier. Gotta diminish the Self, and
    the same stuff that slows them down or buys us time to get the
    diagram set up or get to the diagram we’ve set up in advance is
    the stuff that works here. Countermeasures. Includes targeting
    weaknesses, distracting, or hurting them.

    This sucks.

    [page break]

    Matthew – Host of the Doom of Edith
    Edith – Vessel for the Girl by Candlelight

    The disctinction between vessels and hosts feels a bit funky.
    Mostly it seems like if you go overboard you start to become a
    vessel, the human part of you becoming a container for the Other
    force. So why does Matthew call himself a Host? Pride? Is it
    the more human side of him sitting in the pilot seat?

    [drawing of a humanoid head and torso, being clawed open, with a
    face peering out through the chest]

    Vessels and hosts are notoriously difficult to bind. We saw this a
    bit with Erasmus in the human binding class.
    If you try to bind the Other, they can lean
    into the human side a bit more, and if you
    try to bind the person, they can lean into
    their Other side. Humans are hard to bind,

    This means the binding ritual has to
    be a complex diagram. Lots of moving
    parts, interlinked, with emphasis on
    the links that connect. This isn’t really
    a binding that asks you do double-
    reinforce everything, but instead, the
    intricacy and overall structure will be
    really important, starting with duality – Hosts
    with multiple Others in them are different,
    but both Matthew & Edith have just the one.

    [drawing of two concentric circles, with a vertical dividing line;
    the left half of the outer circle is black, and the left half of the
    inner circle is white; the right hand sides are the opposite]

    For the duality, we want to have a balanced diagram with stuff
    mirrored but reversed… Full/hollow matched to hollow/full.
    We want stuff in it like yin-yang but the shape
    of it can’t be yin-yang, since that’s got its own
    meaning and symbolism. Target both at the
    same time, and then make the connecting stuff
    important. That’s our starting point.

    [page break]

    Key stuff to include in the bind dragrams for Matthew, taken
    from class with Durocher and the texts…

    The number 2. We think this is really relevant because
    of the duality hosting, because he exists as part of a pair &
    it’s going to be part of the diagram anyway.
    Going to other mystical numbers, 5 is the ‘Heirophant’, the
    institution, and is often related to incarnations and other set
    & related stuff like Fate, Destiny, Dream. The Doom of Edith
    is dangerous because it’s inevitable. They knock it back, but
    can’t totally stop it. Edith was supposed to die and death
    or doom come for her. If we’re going to have 3 on one side
    of the diagram and 2 on the other, it should bias toward the
    The number 13 is both a good indicator of misfortune and it
    is the tarot number for ‘Death’, which covers transformation
    and rebirth, not necessarily dying.
    The number 15 is ‘the Devil’, for shadow self, attachment, &
    being bound & is multiple of 3 x 5. Should be biased toward
    Matthew, instead of the Doom.
    Doom as a concept is rooted in fate, mostly, but also in
    death and violence. There aren’t a lot of good symbols out
    there to represent ‘Doom’, but Verona thinks a snake would
    be a middle ground for the ‘thread’ of Fate, the skull of the
    Death, and the sword of War. It’s flexible, has a head, and
    has a weapon. We looked it up and snakes have a long
    tradition of representing healing and renewal, but Verona
    says we can have the snake’s head point ‘down’ (toward the
    center) and it could mean something else. We’re going to go
    with her gut instinct for this.
    For Matthew’s symbols, we pretty much agree the heart
    works for his human side. Humans have hearts, he loves
    Edith, and does a lot of exercise, nature stuff. Feels right.

    [page break]

    [drawing of an ornate magic circle; the central circle contains a
    pentagon, with angular “arms” spiraling around it; outside that is
    a ring with writing in it; outside that is another circle with
    snakes or loops on the left, and hearts on the right; the far left
    has an ornate heart motif; the far right has a snake/loop motif]

    First Take:
    Frame of two opposing elements.

    Ring of 15 hearts/snake loops/head
    13 word binding: “Us three of
    Kennet bind Matthew Moss and
    the Doom of Edith James”

    Five-sided spiral for the center.

    Verona wants to redo this, with more emphasis on the structural
    elements, so it’s not concentric circles. Maybe with rings of weird
    pentagons for every layer. Have to figure out a repeating pattern
    for snake loops & hearts, though, and make nicer hearts.

    This doesn’t quite feel right, though. Maybe tree instead of heart?
    He likes nature and works at Buckheed.

    Stuff to include in the binding diagram for Edith, Vessel:

    The number 2. Same reasons as for Matthew.
    The number 1. This is a weird one for diagrams, but the Girl
    by Candlelight is a spirit and, on her own, is very vulnerable
    to the stuff like lines on diagrams and basic circles. Edith’s
    body insulates the GbC against this stuff in most everyday
    stuff. The ‘0’ in binding numerology is the hollow circle, like
    we use for the darkness rune. The ‘1’, then, holds something –
    typically a strong symbol, which flows well into the lines and
    increases their effort. On that same note…
    The number 0. The hollow spaces of a diagram are a key
    part of any hallow, and what we’re really trying to do here is
    make a hallowed space within. This makes the light/dark
    spaces from two pages ago that much more important.
    Fire/water dichotomy. Not much to say here.

    [page break]

    Liked by 2 people

    • {Unofficial transcript, part 2}

      [drawing of an ornate magic circle, with inward-pointing triangular
      overlays at the top and bottom, and multiple overlapping triangles
      inside; each region is white or black]

      Ideas behind experimental, proposed binding
      diagram for Edith: emphasis on triangles
      because of the base elemental runes,
      use of filled/empty spaces, and the
      ‘patchwork’ spirit, made up of many
      segments. If it works, it should pull
      at her from two directions. Is a ‘negative’
      binding because it’s rigid, to oppose the
      efemeral spirit.

      Only issue is how much of a pain it would be
      to actually draw. We might need a stencil or something.

      Otherwise, if we use a simpler circle with a ring of water runes
      and a fire rune in a ‘hollow’ in the center, that could work, but
      we’d have to do something about Edith, who is a bit weaker.

      Dwelling on this stuff is a real mood killer, but because humans
      are way harder to bind than Others, it may be that we have to
      attack or hamper them somehow.

      While they’re close together, they’re stronger. They know how
      to work together, Edith can do her thing, and Matthew can help
      and protect her. Kind of. While they’re apart, Matthew can use
      his Doom.

      So it gets really really tricky to bind them because Edith is going
      to stop us from binding Matthew and Matthew will stop us from
      binding Edith. It’s almost like they’re not just a duality host, but
      a quadra-mega-host. Sorta have to tie everything about them
      all up in a neat bow.
      …………………………we’ll have to think on this more.

      [page break]

      Night Hags/Nightmare (Apleana)
      [drawing of a tall, shrouded figure standing before a crescent moon]
      As a general rule, the Night Hag may only be vuln-
      erable for binding when on the hunt for her nightly
      meals or when baited into negotiation. The Night
      Hag pursues single targets, with a given Hag’s disp-
      osition for periodic large meals or many smaller o-
      nes varying from Hag to Hag. Those who would
      wish to bind the Hag should study her pattern and
      be prepared to interfere. As the Hag prepares to ta-
      rget a particular subject, she must extend her vile b-
      eing to them, and in this reaching, she foregoes her
      ability to travel or be vague in nature. Vulnerabilit-
      ies will be magnified, and it costs her dearly to aba-
      ndon her prey once so extended. One may present
      themselves, a volunteer, or a deserving and hapless
      unawakened as bait, then use the means and metho-
      ds detailed in this chapter to corner the depraved ni-
      ght witch and bind her wholly.

      The book on Night Hags (and nightmares in general) seems to
      assume that they’re really hard to corner if they don’t want a
      confrontation, and a lot of prep is needed to have any chance of
      success at all. It also assumes they’re evil, and we’re pretty sure
      Alpeana isn’t that evil.

      More attention is given to the wways of hangling a Night Hag.
      These ways fall into two categories. First, a lot of them
      discourage the Night Hag, trying to make her go to a new target
      or make her stop long enough that she can be talked to, at which
      point the practitioner offers a deal like “Go manipulate this
      person’s dreams and I’ll give you this.” (Continued on next page)

      [page break]

      These discouragements are really weird and lame, apparently
      because the Night Hag is pretty immaterial and is stuck obeying
      some odd rules and superstitions. Seems to require at least two
      of the thre following things for optimal effect:

      Sealing off the physical space the Hag is in. This can be the
      Night Hag entering a room through a tight space, like the
      crack under the door or a knothole, then blocking off that
      space. Cuts off her access to the flows, realms, and forces
      she taps for her power and sustenance. They immediately
      get feeble and weak, like they’re starving.
      Displays of dominance or getting the upper hand. Stuff in
      this category includes things like stealing her stuff, laughing
      in her face, or humiliating her. Confidence, presentation &
      flair are pretty key here. There’s some weird ass patriarchy
      B.S. in this, so we’re not sure how much to listen to it. All
      about making her ‘meek’ so you can negotiate from a
      position of power.
      Measures focused around day/night, sleep, protection, and
      general warding. Stuff like lines of salt on the windowsill,
      lending your pillow to an animal in the daytime so she can’t
      find you even if she’s right there and you’re lying in bed,
      tricking her into thinking it’s daytime, and drinking milk.

      The other approach is more focused. The Somnambulence text
      has lists of materials that hurt Night Creatures, including pure
      things like clear running water, salt, bright light, silver, and
      cleansing smoke. Some of these are tied to cardinal elements
      like earth, air, fire, and water, and can be matched to a specific
      Night Creature. Then there’s hag stuff, capitalizing on how they
      used to be human but aren’t anymore. Icons of civilization like
      loud music, running machinery, television, and complex locks can
      ward them off or diminish them. These things can stop her in her
      tracks so that practice can be put into plaec. (continued…)

      [page break]

      In some cases, the approaches can be combined. Leading to
      stories and situations like throwing a puzzle at the hag and then
      demanding she solve it. Bewildered, she may end up trying to
      solve it in a fluster while you can draw the binding around her.

      Salt, chalk, and milk can make a good ‘negative binding’, while
      black soot, black oil, putrefying fats (heated so it’ll run), murky
      water the light can’t shine through, and tangled string all work for
      the Night Hag, either because she’s a Night Creature or a Hag.
      Circles are supposed to be hollow, attuned against immaterial
      threats, & above all, are interpersonal. Because the Night Hag
      has intimate relationships with her target, the most effective
      bindings will have a place for the practitioner in them. If the
      practitioner turns away, the binding gets wayyyyy weaker. If the
      practitioner remains, even a chalk circle will hold a lot of weight.
      It’s a bit like locking her in a room with you, knowing she’ll starve
      before you do (and will wilt in any sunlight, etc, over hours).

      Symbols for dark and light are common, and motifs of sun and
      moon are good for negative and positive bindings, in that order.
      Because Night Hags easily traverse realms and reams, the
      sun, moon, and stars are used to help keep them present.

      [drawing of ornate magic circle; inside are two smaller circles, empty,
      with a swirling black shape wrapping around them; one point of the swirl
      ends with a sun, and the other with a moon; outside/overlapping this is
      the outermost part of a clock face with marks for each minute, and at
      the 2:30 position on the outermost rim is an 8-pointed star]

      We also want to use the wheel or clock motif at
      the inside rim, to block passage. We could
      fill it in for structure, but that takes time.

      Taken from the book. There are
      variants that put the practitioner and
      the Other further apart, but they’re less
      strong. We know Alpy, so this is easier.

      It’s worth saying, if we end up going this
      route, then one of us is going to be tied up sitting in the circle
      to pin her down until we can get to surrender. Ugh ugh ugh.

      [page break]

      Liked by 2 people

    • {Unofficial transcript, part 3}

      The Faerie
      Guilherme – Fae of the High Summer
      Maricica, Young Fae of the Dark Fall

      [drawing of eyeball with thorny vines]

      No lie, if it comes to us needing to bind them, we might be in a
      pretty bad spot. The Faerie are tricky. It’s like…
      Guilherme is crazy good at fighting, especially
      if it’s a duel or something organized, where he
      can manipulate the organized part. But he’s a
      better schemer, according to Maricica, than he
      is a fighter.

      The only benefit/hope, really, is that Guilherme
      is going the way of Winter and isn’t that
      interested in scheming. Which could be the ploy, but… we can

      Meanwhile, Maricica is young, and she’s essentially at the far
      end of the scale. Guilherme isn’t secretly saying his praises or
      making us extra wary of her (at least on that front) so she might
      not be that crazy good at manipulation. Maybe. But that could
      be like saying she’s 50x better than us instead of 300x better.

      [drawing of a sword, hilt upward, with a flower wrapping around
      the blade]

      Trying to do something like trap them in a binding is like going
      into things with John by planning a shotout.
      This is where we really need a good plan of
      mostly countermeasures.

      Just in case (pos/neg bindings, barriers)…

      High Summer have affinity for Yew, wine,
      and honey. They’re weak to poisons,
      tarnished or rusty metal, and heartbreak.
      Dark Fall likes bones, charms, and curses.
      Fine chain (esp. silver or cold-forged),
      virgin flesh and secret names a weakness.

      [page break]

      Because we can’t expect to bind them, we plan to disrupt. Big
      explosions, blitzes, disruption, and unexpected stuff. We can’t
      get caught up in their games, social or otherwise.

      After discussing it, we’re thinking we should hit the market, with
      the teachers’ help, if that’s still on. Either dark fall, to get info on
      Maricica, or the fall court above, to see if a faerie would be willing
      to give us something to use. Fae tricks and wiles against Fae.
      Maybe. We don’t have a great Fae-focused lecturer, unless
      a Vanderwerf family member comes to teach, and, well… they’re
      Vanderwerfs. Seems like we’d be beneath their notice. Lucy
      thinks Ray might be a good person to ask.

      Big, big, megahuge priority is to figure out the traps and have a
      plan in place. Maricica said there’d be some. It’s been a month
      and apparently we haven’t seen one yet. Three of our gifts,
      possibly one gift for each of us, has some hidden catch.

      That’s bad, and it’s so easy to forget it’s a thing.

      If we need to bind them, we’re going to have to hope we can get
      help. John or the goblins, in coordination with tools and stuff.
      According to ‘A Circle of Cold Iron’, one good thing about beating
      a Faerie is that if you can get the victory, it tends to be decisive;
      they fold.

      Silver relates to the Winter Court, tarnishes easily, and has a long
      tradition as something that penetrates illusions. Light reflected
      off of silver can, with intent or power behind it, hurt illusions, At
      the same time, Fae can treat it as a positive binding thing in
      some cases, and will trade for it or use it. It’s very context
      dependent and stuff like the silver being polished or being a knife
      vs. being jewelry will matter a lot. We should get some.

      [page break]

      Dog Tag/Dog of War (John Stiles)

      This one doesn’t need to be too long. Dog Tags are Animuses
      and they’re really, really easy to bind, at least on one level. The
      diagram doesn’t matter that much and a chalk circle could work.

      Where it gets tricky is that the flow of power from the war to John
      makes the circle hard to close. This is supposedly going to make
      stuff like putting the chalk to the floor a lot harder, and will make
      John stop like he’s hit a wall before he can get sucked into it. He
      is basically too ‘big’, metaphysically, to fit, unless the diagram
      is massive and has a lot of power. This can come and go with
      the state of the war overseas, but it’s not impossible. The
      practitioners that got the rest of John’s squad managed it.

      Then there’s other stuff. Dog Tags who sit in a binding circle for
      long enough apparently get a ‘get out of jail free’ card, if and only
      if there’s conflict around them. More conflict means faster
      turnaround on this, but if there’s a war, battle, or armed feud in
      the region, it’s never more than 24 hours. If there isn’t, this
      doesn’t apply. In really hectic cases this can happen fast, and in
      really, really hectic cases, Dog Tags can have Frag Tags to blow
      up the chalk lines or chains or whatever, and Black Dogs to mess
      up the metaphysical stuff. Most War Mage practitioners will take
      the bound Dog Tag far away to get clear of all this. AND, finally,
      just so we’re reminding ourselves of the stuff to watch for, let’s not
      forget John is smart and rigged bombs to catch us if we tried to
      bind him. He takes steps.

      We do have a countermeasure available, and it’s pretty awful. If
      we need to stall John or keep him in place, technically he’s sworn
      to come if we toss our tags down. We wouldn’t get them back
      but we could get him where we need him. Hate this hate it.

      [page break]

      Goblins, Assorted
      Toadswallow Bluntmunch Gashwad Cherrypop
      Doglick Butty McButtbutt Snatchragged Unnamed nosepick + Several Others

      Putting the goblin names at the top of the page is a big wake-up
      call. It’s a lot. Goblins are pretty notorious for getting everywhere
      & being everywhere, and it’s really starting to hit home that this
      is a thing that happens.

      The biggest factor with goblins is that they’re so versatile. T.S.
      especially has some out-there tools and goblin-y magic items,
      with a bunch of tricks up his sleeve, but all of them have these
      little things they can do. Gashwad can tear up practice and turn
      it against the practitioner, Bluntmunch can take charge of lesser
      goblins and easily grab more, Doglick has the screams, howls, &
      feral instinct, Snatchragged is good at breaking stuff, and Butty
      is this slippery little nugget of awful that builds up in intensity until
      he decides to utterly obliterate something in a disgusting way.
      And most are really brutal in a fight.

      So it’s not just that we’d be dealing with the chaos and the
      unpredictability of 10+ small, aggressive, noxious little dudes and
      dudettes, but every few seconds, one of them is going to be doing
      stuff that we have to react to or handle.

      The situation may be the opposite of the plan for the Faerie. We
      need to avoid a fight or confrontation, or control it if we can.
      Goblins listen to strength, so a countermeasure might be to win
      over the lesser goblins so the more canny ones who could do
      something can’t use them. Toadswallow springs to mind, but
      Blunt isn’t dumb, & Gashwad is on paper as a ‘blighter’, as little as
      the labels matter, who is good at messing with practice.

      They shouldn’t be able to injure us, so that does help. (continued)

      [page break]

      The stuff that binds goblins is pretty varied, but Cherrypop told us
      the big one, and the books back it up. Metal with earth, air, water,
      fire, electricity, smoke, or whatever else moving through it will be
      the best thing. The existence of this stuff is why goblins don’t go
      that far into the heart of Kennet, and prefer to stay at the fringes,
      by the water, at the north end of downtown, in the woods, etc.

      We could use that to retreat to places, maybe.

      But mundane means of binding work too. Chains, rope? They
      can keep a goblin put. Goblins that are tied up and bound with
      ropes or chains tend to stop fighting pretty fast, since they have
      low patience.

      Clean still water, salt, holly, and other natural things will hold
      up a goblin. A lot of the time, they can’t actually do anything
      about these things. Put a goblin in a bathtub with clean water
      and they can’t even spit in it, can’t stain it, can’t really move. So
      they’ll freeze. Same thing goes for holly, salt, and other ‘pure’

      The problem is getting there.

      Bound goblins can become weapons or tools, and we should
      expect some goblins to use this. Two unarmed goblins can easily
      become one goblin with a nasty weapon. They can also bind one
      another, which beats us to the punch, which is a complicated

      Writing this out, it feels like we should be very mindful of the boss
      goblins. T.S. and Blunt. They wouldn’t bow down to or put them-
      selves at the mercy of another goblin, and if they fall, the rabble
      will be a lot less organized. Spooky to think about a confrontation.

      [page break]

      Lost -Miss Snowdrop

      This is a tricky one. Lost don’t follow any particular rules, and
      are next to Oni, apparently, as Others who break rules. Like how
      Snowdrop’s speech is flipped around in intention.

      So all we’ve got to go on is, well, what Miss told us she’s most
      afraid of. Establishing patterns that catch her/them up in them, or
      assigning labels to her. From the way Miss describes things, any
      ritual with enough activity and power can snag her, and will pull
      her in, making it hard for her to climb out.

      Outside of that, we just don’t know. Typing this up feels awful, but
      it’s necessary. Like John, she said she’s come when called, and
      we’d be abusing that in the worst way to make her worst fear
      come true, if we called her into a binding circle.

      Other than that, she’s quick, and she has a really deep & subtle
      understanding of how practice and how these things work. This also
      includes stuff like practitioner-Other relationships and mentalities.

      [image of a plain white humanoid head and upper torso, on a background
      of horizontal black bars]

      Instead of dwelling on this and getting Verona to do up a complex
      ritual that could snag Miss, we decided what we’ll do is talk to the
      family of Finders I’ve been in touch with & ask about measures for
      the Lost. Just in case.

      Putting Snowdrop in this same group. Not so
      great at fighting. Not especially dangerous,
      but they know us/me. They’ve got the low-
      down info on us, and that’s dangerous in its
      own way. I really don’t htink Snow is a culprit,
      or even Miss, but we can’t afford to let our
      guards down.

      [page break]

      Nine Other Others

      We still have research to complete on this, but we’ve got notes on
      a few, for the next few pages. Putting a note here as a reminder
      to ourselves: the new Others who were brought in to help with the
      perimeter are potential allies of the culprit. So we should make
      some mental notes on how to deal with them. Fortunately, they
      don’t sound too strong. We have labels for two:

      Tashlit is a god-begotten. Apparently they uh… birds and bees of
      the gods are sorta prone to making monsters. The theory is that
      a lot of the time they’ll cover it up by making excuses and calling it
      a curse. Since the various gods, known and super-out-of-the-way,
      aren’t really talking to people all the time, they’re hard to call out
      on stuff like this, with their excuses over monstrous, bastard
      kids. Ugh.

      Big thing for god-begotten others is that the limits on what they
      can pull are really, really up there. It may require conditions, like
      breaches of karma, trespass on territory, or for the god-begotten
      to get really upset, but if they do cut loose, then it’s like a granny
      lifting a car. Except it’s a bird-headed guy leveling buildings with
      a scream or literally moving a mountain fifty feet. That’s only if the
      innocent aren’t paying attention. The Seal weakened them all.
      And it’s only the first generation G.B.s that are that over the top.
      The second generation ones have only a small fraction of this,
      and a really high chance of being sterile. So sad.

      Cig is an ambulatory object. We may actually have an Other
      weaker than Cherrypop. It’s a cigarette. It’s not personified, it
      doesn’t speak, it just shows up places, has an inhuman, ambient
      awareness, and never goes out or really diminishes. Apparently
      Cig is keeping an eye on the perimeter and will show up burning
      a hole on a map, ouija board or ilst of names when convenient.

      [page break]

      Add to M&E

      Quick note while we’re thinking about it.

      Binding Matthew. We were chatting about them being a quartet
      more than two hosts, and the stuff that has to be handled, and I
      sorta have one idea.

      And it’s awful. This entire thing, thinking about how to deal with
      the Others who’ve given us gifts? It’s awful.

      But we don’t have to bind both Matthew and the Doom. If we bind
      the Doom and just the Doom, then Matthew can’t go anywhere.
      If he separates from it, then he’s risking that it will hurt Edith and
      we know he doesn’t want that.

      These are the options we haev? Ways of arresting the culprit(s)?
      It’s easy to see why they hate and loathe practitioners, because
      this is the sort of thing other practitioners do.

      Note to self: no time to edit the doc and keep it tidy, so just add
      this to the M&E part of the document later. Gotta prep for Lucy’s
      Implement ritual tomorrow.

      Liked by 2 people

    • Hmm. It ate the asterisks that I was using as crude ASCII bullet point markers, but didn’t replace them with an HTML unordered list. How rude. I wonder what the best way to format a transcript is. (And damn, that was a LOT of typing. I have a lot more respect now for the people doing these regularly.)

      Liked by 1 person

      • I wrote the transcript after the request was made. It got moved up somehow. I don’t pretend to understand how this comment system works.


        • Fortunately, subscribing to comments on a post sends me notifications of all comments on a post, not just direct replies to my comment… but yeah, the threading is kind of wonky, and I wish I could just force comments to display in strict chronological order to make it easier to read just new comments when returning to a post I haven’t subscribed to comments on… or at least knew a way to subscribe to comments without having to post a comment.


        • or at least knew a way to subscribe to comments without having to post a comment.

          You can. When scrolling up the page, there’s a floating “Follow” button that appears in the bottom-right corner. When you click it, it changes from “Follow” to “Following,” and you start getting emails for all the things.

          I don’t know how blind-friendly it is, though, since it’s on a dynamic panel. If you need a less GUI way to operate it, make sure you’re logged into your WordPress account and then run the following javascript in your browser’s console while on any page of Pale:



        • Hmm, actually that Follow button isn’t enough on its own. After using it, you have to also go to https://wordpress.com/following/manage and click the “Settings” button across from the entry for Pale, then flip the “Email me new comments” switch at the bottom of the panel it pops up.


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